tramountana
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Τζαμί στην Πρωτεύουσα. Ποιά η γνώμη σας;
- Μέλος που άνοιξε το νήμα GABOR
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- Βλέπουν το thread αυτή τη στιγμή 3 άτομα (0 μέλη και 3 επισκέπτες)
Επισκέπτης
Kαι που τα απαντας οπως διαπιστωνεις δεν αλλαζουν πολλα πραματα.
Στην τελικη απλα κουραζεσαι και χανεις χρονο.
Με εκτιμηση.
Επισκέπτης
Δεν μού απάντησες όμως για την εθνική σου ταυτότητα.Εγώ είμαι Ελληνας.Εσύ;
Επισκέπτης
Ρε σεις δεν μπορείτε να χωνεψέτε την παγκοσμιοποίηση με τίποτα!!! 
Μόνο για τα προιόντα τους είναι καλοί οι ξένοι,μιας και είμαστε ανίκανοι να παράγουμε!!!
Είμαστε τόσο ηλίθιοι που βρίζουμε τους Τούρκους αλλά τους ενισχύουμε κιόλας αγοράζοντας από αυτούς φρούτα κ λαχανικά!!!
Μόνο για τα προιόντα τους είναι καλοί οι ξένοι,μιας και είμαστε ανίκανοι να παράγουμε!!!
Είμαστε τόσο ηλίθιοι που βρίζουμε τους Τούρκους αλλά τους ενισχύουμε κιόλας αγοράζοντας από αυτούς φρούτα κ λαχανικά!!!
madk4speed
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The trick behind the apparent inconsistency of the Quran and why the radical Muslims are always correct: Like no other holy book among the world religions, the Quran contains an abundance of contradictory expressions. What is forbidden in one place is expressly demanded in another, and vice versa. However, the contradictory quality of the Quran is only an apparent one. It falls apart abruptly when one recognizes the very carefully protected secret hidden within the architecture of the Quran. For the Quranic Suras (chapters) are not arranged chronologically, but rather according to their length – and the newer Suras (from Muhammad’s violent later phase when he was in Medina) override the older ones from his era in Mecca that were comparatively more peaceful. However, this secret is guarded by Islamic scholars very closely as if it were a holy grail – and is aired only on particular occasions.
(An Essay from Michael Mannheimer, Germany, March 23, 2010 / Translation: Anders Denken)
1. INTRODUCTORY THOUGHTS
The plainly crucial question: Is Islam peaceful or dangerous?
In spite of the fact that almost all international terror acts of the last decade have been carried out by Muslims, Islamic scholars insist that Islam is a “religion of peace.” As the underpinning for their thesis, they cite Quran verses somewhate like Sura 5 verse 32, according to which the one who “kills a person,” shall be “like one who has murdered the whole of mankind“ (Islamic clerics, however, hide from their faithful followers that in this verse, Muhammad cited commandments from the Jews’ Talmud [Sanhedrin 4:1, 22a]). Critics of Islam confront Muslims about this with Suras that demand the opposite: namely the murder of infidels. Thus in Sura 47 verse 4, it says somewhat like: “And if you meet the infidels, then off with their head until you have spread a massacre among them.”
Almost every media report about Islam, nearly all talk shows with and about Muslims and their faith revolve around the central question of whether Islam is a religion of peace or of terror. And most of the reports and talk shows consistently finish the same way: the mostly uninformed viewer is exactly as knowledgeable as before. For the defenders of Islam cite ostensibly peaceful Quran verses while their critics point to the countless terrorist acts of violence that are carried out by Muslims in the name of Islam. Like with communism once upon a time, nowadays the Muslim advocates also answer with the remark that those violent acts have nothing to do with Islam. And like the communists back then, most Muslims today also regularly suppress the reports of the thousands of atrocities and human rights offenses – committed in the countries of Islam and the countries of “infidels” – in their debates and in contrast point to the alleged guilt of the West, to its colonization and capitalism as the real cause for that terror. As communists did in their time, Muslims and their Western apologists assert today that the worldwide terror acts have to do with the “understandable” and desperate condition of the the poorest in the face of the dominance and humiliation from the West, and in reality have nothing to do with Islam.
However, the facts speak a totally different language. In the Index of Christian Persecution by Open Doors that lists the 50 worst countries for persecution of Christians, 40 places are occupied by Islamic states – in the highest position. And in the Anticorruption Index of the UN, Islamic states consistently show as the most corrupt power structures on our planet. And the majority of applicants for asylum in Western lands originate from Islamic countries in which almost all human rights are systematically denied (in Holland, some nine out of ten applicants are from Islamic countries).
Since the first days of their religion, Muslims have shown themselves incapable of searching out possible causes for their disaster. Islam’s complete incapability of exercising self-criticism and self-examination one side, and the pathological, broad encompassing, self-loathing of the West on the other, form fruitful ideological Humus, and on this fertile ground Islam is currently spreading with a historically unmatched speed in the countries of the West, and has become the historically greatest danger for cultural and ideological survival in Western culture as well.
Islam is neither anticapitalist nor anticolonialist, nor does it aim for the equality of all people.
For Islam deals neither with the abolition of capitalism nor with the abolition of colonialism, and especially not with the abolition of human and individual equality. Islam is, and has always been, capitalistically structured: from the very beginning it has supported itself less by production and more by trade. With its international trade practices, Muslim marketers have acquired much influence and affluence by the most inexpensive purchase possible of undesired products and then the subsequent sale of those products in other places for maximum Islamic clerics, however, hide from their faithful followers that in this verse, Muhammad cited commandments from the Jews’ Talmud [Sanhedrin 4:1, 22a] profit. According to Marxist terminology, such trade, that appropriates the surplus value of the poor but value-determining proletariat (for the earlier era of Islam, they were day workers and poor plantation workers) without letting them participate in the profit, is termed “capitalism” as defined by Marx and Lenin.
And from the very beginning, Muslims have fallen upon foreign people, colonized them, and where possible Islamized them, and and preyed upon their productivity in the form of taxes. Islamic imperialism already existed long before Western imperialism, whether in North African states (that were primarily Christian and Jewish), or in Spain (Cordoba Islam), or in the conquest and imperial assimilation of the early-Jewish-Christian Middle East, or by the attack and partial conquest of India costing millions of Hindus their lives and nearly wiping out the peacefully minded Buddhists who had no defence against the murderous attacks of the Arabs. Also the Ottoman kingdom was an Islamic empire, long before Spaniards, Portuguese and English colonized foreign peoples. However, in politically correct fashion, the imperialistic aspect of Islam has been and is to this day completely ignored by sociologists, political scientists, Islam scientists and historians.
Moreover, Islam is totally uninterested in the equality of individuals and people. Much less is there any equality of man and woman within Islam (Islam is without question the largest and longest lasting Sex-Apartheid in world history) – and Islam tolerates other religions as equal persuasions just as little. On the contrary, the main objective of Islam is the capture of world domination (dar al-Islam), and every means is justified and allowed on the way there: even to the point of destruction and annihilation of every “infidel,” so titled by Muslims – being oriented by the declarations of the Quran and Muhammad – for all those of a different faith. Hence, Islam classifies individuals intwo two classes: the class of believers, and that of the “infidels.” The former are Muslims and will go to Paradise. The latter are non-Muslims, and therefore individuals having no value (regarding this subject, the Imam of London, Sheikh Omar al-Bakri Muhammad, said recently: “We make no distinction between civilians and non-civilians, between innocent and guilty – only between Muslims and infidels. And the life of the infidel is rubbish!” Source: “Publica,” Portugal. April 20, 2004), that will go to Hell, and they may be, indeed must be tortured, fought against and killed (or so in Sura 2, Verse 216: “Battle is mandatory for you, though it may be disgusting to you!”), since they are the ones standing in the way of the world domination by Islam.
This is class hostility and racism, pure and simple. The German political scientist Matthias Küntzel brings this fact to the point like this:
“Islam has substituted the biological racism of the Nazis with a form of theocratic racism without dependence on racial superiority and a program of euthanasia, nevertheless it seeks to annihilate Jews as the presumed root of all the world’s ills.”
That the critics of that kind of religious racism, of all people, are yet defamed as racists on the part of the mainstream media (for example, the Süddeutsche Zeitung) is the height of willful ignorance and lack of knowledge that prevails in broad parts of Western intellectualism.
(An Essay from Michael Mannheimer, Germany, March 23, 2010 / Translation: Anders Denken)
1. INTRODUCTORY THOUGHTS
The plainly crucial question: Is Islam peaceful or dangerous?
In spite of the fact that almost all international terror acts of the last decade have been carried out by Muslims, Islamic scholars insist that Islam is a “religion of peace.” As the underpinning for their thesis, they cite Quran verses somewhate like Sura 5 verse 32, according to which the one who “kills a person,” shall be “like one who has murdered the whole of mankind“ (Islamic clerics, however, hide from their faithful followers that in this verse, Muhammad cited commandments from the Jews’ Talmud [Sanhedrin 4:1, 22a]). Critics of Islam confront Muslims about this with Suras that demand the opposite: namely the murder of infidels. Thus in Sura 47 verse 4, it says somewhat like: “And if you meet the infidels, then off with their head until you have spread a massacre among them.”
Almost every media report about Islam, nearly all talk shows with and about Muslims and their faith revolve around the central question of whether Islam is a religion of peace or of terror. And most of the reports and talk shows consistently finish the same way: the mostly uninformed viewer is exactly as knowledgeable as before. For the defenders of Islam cite ostensibly peaceful Quran verses while their critics point to the countless terrorist acts of violence that are carried out by Muslims in the name of Islam. Like with communism once upon a time, nowadays the Muslim advocates also answer with the remark that those violent acts have nothing to do with Islam. And like the communists back then, most Muslims today also regularly suppress the reports of the thousands of atrocities and human rights offenses – committed in the countries of Islam and the countries of “infidels” – in their debates and in contrast point to the alleged guilt of the West, to its colonization and capitalism as the real cause for that terror. As communists did in their time, Muslims and their Western apologists assert today that the worldwide terror acts have to do with the “understandable” and desperate condition of the the poorest in the face of the dominance and humiliation from the West, and in reality have nothing to do with Islam.
However, the facts speak a totally different language. In the Index of Christian Persecution by Open Doors that lists the 50 worst countries for persecution of Christians, 40 places are occupied by Islamic states – in the highest position. And in the Anticorruption Index of the UN, Islamic states consistently show as the most corrupt power structures on our planet. And the majority of applicants for asylum in Western lands originate from Islamic countries in which almost all human rights are systematically denied (in Holland, some nine out of ten applicants are from Islamic countries).
Since the first days of their religion, Muslims have shown themselves incapable of searching out possible causes for their disaster. Islam’s complete incapability of exercising self-criticism and self-examination one side, and the pathological, broad encompassing, self-loathing of the West on the other, form fruitful ideological Humus, and on this fertile ground Islam is currently spreading with a historically unmatched speed in the countries of the West, and has become the historically greatest danger for cultural and ideological survival in Western culture as well.
Islam is neither anticapitalist nor anticolonialist, nor does it aim for the equality of all people.
For Islam deals neither with the abolition of capitalism nor with the abolition of colonialism, and especially not with the abolition of human and individual equality. Islam is, and has always been, capitalistically structured: from the very beginning it has supported itself less by production and more by trade. With its international trade practices, Muslim marketers have acquired much influence and affluence by the most inexpensive purchase possible of undesired products and then the subsequent sale of those products in other places for maximum Islamic clerics, however, hide from their faithful followers that in this verse, Muhammad cited commandments from the Jews’ Talmud [Sanhedrin 4:1, 22a] profit. According to Marxist terminology, such trade, that appropriates the surplus value of the poor but value-determining proletariat (for the earlier era of Islam, they were day workers and poor plantation workers) without letting them participate in the profit, is termed “capitalism” as defined by Marx and Lenin.
And from the very beginning, Muslims have fallen upon foreign people, colonized them, and where possible Islamized them, and and preyed upon their productivity in the form of taxes. Islamic imperialism already existed long before Western imperialism, whether in North African states (that were primarily Christian and Jewish), or in Spain (Cordoba Islam), or in the conquest and imperial assimilation of the early-Jewish-Christian Middle East, or by the attack and partial conquest of India costing millions of Hindus their lives and nearly wiping out the peacefully minded Buddhists who had no defence against the murderous attacks of the Arabs. Also the Ottoman kingdom was an Islamic empire, long before Spaniards, Portuguese and English colonized foreign peoples. However, in politically correct fashion, the imperialistic aspect of Islam has been and is to this day completely ignored by sociologists, political scientists, Islam scientists and historians.
Moreover, Islam is totally uninterested in the equality of individuals and people. Much less is there any equality of man and woman within Islam (Islam is without question the largest and longest lasting Sex-Apartheid in world history) – and Islam tolerates other religions as equal persuasions just as little. On the contrary, the main objective of Islam is the capture of world domination (dar al-Islam), and every means is justified and allowed on the way there: even to the point of destruction and annihilation of every “infidel,” so titled by Muslims – being oriented by the declarations of the Quran and Muhammad – for all those of a different faith. Hence, Islam classifies individuals intwo two classes: the class of believers, and that of the “infidels.” The former are Muslims and will go to Paradise. The latter are non-Muslims, and therefore individuals having no value (regarding this subject, the Imam of London, Sheikh Omar al-Bakri Muhammad, said recently: “We make no distinction between civilians and non-civilians, between innocent and guilty – only between Muslims and infidels. And the life of the infidel is rubbish!” Source: “Publica,” Portugal. April 20, 2004), that will go to Hell, and they may be, indeed must be tortured, fought against and killed (or so in Sura 2, Verse 216: “Battle is mandatory for you, though it may be disgusting to you!”), since they are the ones standing in the way of the world domination by Islam.
This is class hostility and racism, pure and simple. The German political scientist Matthias Küntzel brings this fact to the point like this:
“Islam has substituted the biological racism of the Nazis with a form of theocratic racism without dependence on racial superiority and a program of euthanasia, nevertheless it seeks to annihilate Jews as the presumed root of all the world’s ills.”
That the critics of that kind of religious racism, of all people, are yet defamed as racists on the part of the mainstream media (for example, the Süddeutsche Zeitung) is the height of willful ignorance and lack of knowledge that prevails in broad parts of Western intellectualism.
madk4speed
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Εγω ακομα περιμενω απαντησεις απο τον αντιφα. Απαντα επιλεκτικα φαινεται....
Hyper Observer
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Δε μπορείς να βγάλεις βιβλιάριο πρόνοιας εάν δεν έχεις χαρτιά.Τώρα αν βάζουν κάποιον άλλον που έχει άδεια παρμονής να τους το βγάλει δεν το γνωρίζω.Σίγουρα πάντως ιατροφαρμακευτική περίθαλψη χωρίς πράσινη κάρτα δεν παίρνεις.
Βρίσκω τραγικό να μου λες ότι δεν δέχεσαι να νοσηλεύονται άνθρωποι εις βάρος της τσέπης σου. Να στα τρώνε οι διάφοροι πολιτικοί και οι διευθυντές των δημοσίων υπηρεσιών και να σου γαμάνε ασάλιωτα το κωλαράκι και την τσέπη δέχεσαι όμως ε;
Επισκέπτης
Π.χ γονοι πλουσιων οικογενειων που πινουν μπαφους στον Στρεφη και τον παιρνουν απο Πακιστανους.
Εγερασα μωρε παιδια,σαραντα χρονια κλεφτης.
Hyper Observer
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Μου κάνει εντύπωση το ότι τα δείγματα που χρησιμοποιείτε μιλώντας για τους μουσουλμάνους (στην προκειμένη περίπτωση) είναι από χώρες όπως το πακιστάν,αφγανιστάν,σαουδική αραβία και τουρκία.Οι 3 πρώτοι έχουν Ισλαμικό καθεστώς και η τουρκία είναι προαιώνιος "εχθρός".Υποθέτω επίσης ότι η πλειοψηφία δε γνωρίζει σε προσωπικό επίπεδο ανθρώπους από αυτές τις χώρες και εάν γνωρίζει κάποιους αυτοί θα είναι λίγοι άρα δε μπορεί να έχει κάποιο αντιπροσωπευτικό δείγμα. Επίσης σταματήστε να μπλέκετε τους λαθρομετανάστες στην κουβέντα.Υπάρχουν ΝΟΜΙΜΟΙ μουσουλμάνοι στην Αθήνα και ας μιλήσουμε για το τέμενος που ΑΥΟΙ ζητούν.Για τους λαθρομετανάστες υπάρχει ειδικό νήμα.
Είναι πολλές οι μουσουλμανικές χώρες και δεν περιορίζονται σε αυτές τις 3 ή 4 που συζητάμε εδώ και ώρες.Επίσης κάθε χώρα έχει το δικό της πολιτικό σύστημα.Οι σκληροπυρηνικές εξαιτίας των οποίων ο σύγχονος μουσουλμανισμός έχει βγάλει την άσχημη αυτή φήμη έχουν Ισλαμικό καθεστώς.Αυτό σημαίνει ότι εφαρμόζουν το νόμο της Σαρίας και οι χώρες αυτές είναι οι εξής:
Πακιστάν
Αφγανιστάν
Ιραν
Ιράκ
Σαουδική Αραβία
Υεμένη
Μαυριτανία
Σε σύνολο 47 μουσουλμανικών χωρών (ολογράφων ΣΑΡΑΝΤΑ ΕΠΤΑ) αυτές μόνο έχουν Ισλαμικό καθεστώς, αυτές έχουν γίνει πολεμικοί στόχοι, αυτές συνδέθηκαν με την τρομοκρατία.
ΟΛΕΣ οι υπόλοιπες έχουν είτε ενιαίο σύστημα κρατους-εκκλησίας (όπως ακριβώς και εδώ) είτε έχουν διαχωρισμό εκκλησίας και κράτους.Αυτές μάλιστα είναι αρκετές μία εκ των οποίων είναι και η Τουρκία.
Ας μη μπλέξουμε πάλι το θέμα με τους λαθρομετανάστες γιατί δεν υπάρχει λόγος.
Είναι πολλές οι μουσουλμανικές χώρες και δεν περιορίζονται σε αυτές τις 3 ή 4 που συζητάμε εδώ και ώρες.Επίσης κάθε χώρα έχει το δικό της πολιτικό σύστημα.Οι σκληροπυρηνικές εξαιτίας των οποίων ο σύγχονος μουσουλμανισμός έχει βγάλει την άσχημη αυτή φήμη έχουν Ισλαμικό καθεστώς.Αυτό σημαίνει ότι εφαρμόζουν το νόμο της Σαρίας και οι χώρες αυτές είναι οι εξής:
Πακιστάν
Αφγανιστάν
Ιραν
Ιράκ
Σαουδική Αραβία
Υεμένη
Μαυριτανία
Σε σύνολο 47 μουσουλμανικών χωρών (ολογράφων ΣΑΡΑΝΤΑ ΕΠΤΑ) αυτές μόνο έχουν Ισλαμικό καθεστώς, αυτές έχουν γίνει πολεμικοί στόχοι, αυτές συνδέθηκαν με την τρομοκρατία.
ΟΛΕΣ οι υπόλοιπες έχουν είτε ενιαίο σύστημα κρατους-εκκλησίας (όπως ακριβώς και εδώ) είτε έχουν διαχωρισμό εκκλησίας και κράτους.Αυτές μάλιστα είναι αρκετές μία εκ των οποίων είναι και η Τουρκία.
Ας μη μπλέξουμε πάλι το θέμα με τους λαθρομετανάστες γιατί δεν υπάρχει λόγος.
madk4speed
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Δεν ψηφιζω ΠΑΣΟΚ,ΝΔ,ΚΚΕ,ΣΥΡΙΖΑ,ΛΑΟΣ,ΟΙΚΟΛΟΓΟΥΣ κτλ...
Μιζες δεν παιρνω και δεν δινω. Και δεν προκειται ΠΟΤΕ να γινω και εγω μερος του διεφθαρμενου αυτου συστηματος.
Ομως δεν θα πεταξω και μολοτωφ στην ομονοια.
madk4speed
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Αριστερος δεν σημαινει αναρχικος, κνιτης ή συριζαιος....το καταλαβες αυτο?
Επισκέπτης
Δεν σε χαρακτήρισα ποτέ "γόνο".Αν θέλεις σχολίασε καί τό υπόλοιπο κείμενο.
Ευχαριστώ
madk4speed
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Αγαπηστε πρωτα τους Ελληνες, και μετα ολους τους αλλους....
madk4speed
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Η επιχειρηματολογια ανθρωπων που ειναι αναρχικοι ειναι περιορισμενη... τι περιμενεις?
Και αυτοαποκαλουνται αριστεροι...
Επισκέπτης
Ρε άνθρωπε κανείς δεν αμφισβήτησε την ανωτερότητα της Ελλάδας ενάντι Τουρκίας,Πακιστάν,Ιράκ κτλ,το να συγκρίνεσαι είναι γελοίο και για γέλια!!!
εσύ νομίζεις ότι εισαι αριστερόςδηλ?
μάθε κάτι φιλαράκο:αριστερός και ρατσιστής δεν γίνεται (εκτός αν είσαι του ΚουΚουΕ βέβαια)
Επισκέπτης
....φαντάσου νά ανοίξουμε μία συζήτηση γιά τόν Πρωταγόρα τί γέλιο έχει νά πέσει!!!!!!!!!!
tramountana
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ρε φίλε κανένας δεν είπε ότι οι ΄ναθρωποι αυτοί δεν έχουν το δικαίωμα να έχουν τον χώρο λατρείας τους.. αυτό όμως δεν σημαίνει ότι αυτός πρέπει να ανεγερθεί με έξοδα του κράτους... ας μαζέψουν το χρήμα και με την συνήθη διαδικασία ανέγερσης χώρων συναθροισης κοινού, θα πάρουν την άδεια οικοδόμησης και θα το ανεγείρουν.. από κει και πέρα τι άλλο θέλουνε?
Hyper Observer
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Ε; Εγώ σου απαντώ με επιχείρημα σε αυτό που είπες για τη νοσηλεία και συ μου γράφες άσχετα.Δε με ενδιαφέρουν οι πολιτικές/θρησκευτικές πεποιθήσεις φιλαράκι αρκεί να μην καταπατάνε τον τρόπο σκέψης μου.
madk4speed
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Σαν πολιτης εχω δικαιωμα να μην θελω λαθρομεταναστες! Να τηρηθουν οι νομοι. Δηλαδη επειδη ζηταω αυτο που λεει ο νομος ειμαι ρατσιστης? Ε τοτε εσυ εισαι μαλακας. Δεν απαντησες σε τιποτα απο οσα σε ρωτησα.