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Ένας από τους καλύτερους σκακιστές της εποχής μας (και ίσως ο επόμενος παγκόσμιος πρωταθλητής) μιλάει για την "κατάσταση"
Interview with Chess Grandmaster Daniil Dubov
"The Only Way To Change Anything in Russia Is a Revolution"
Vladimir Putin frequently uses sports stars to promote his propaganda. But Russian chess grandmaster Daniil Dubov is standing up to the Russian leader and the war in Ukraine. In an interview, the 25-year-old explains why he is willing to take that risk.
It's a Wednesday evening and Daniil Dubov is sitting in the bar of a Berlin hotel. Darkness falling outside and the 25-year-old Russian chess grandmaster has just played to a draw at the FIDE Grand Prix, an important tournament currently being held in the German capital. He says it was more or less a game just like any other, though he admits that he's having trouble focusing on chess at the moment, with his country, Russia, waging a war of aggression against Ukraine.
Shortly after the invasion began, Dubov joined 43 other Russian chess players in condemning the war in an open letter to President Vladimir Putin, a risky move for him given that he lives in Moscow. He sits down with DER SPIEGEL to discuss it over coffee. As he speaks, he keeps looking out the window thoughtfully.
DER SPIEGEL: Mr. Dubov, you are one of the 44 Russian chess players who, in an open letter to Russian President Vladimir Putin at the beginning of March, called for an end to the war of aggression on Ukraine. Why did you decide to do this?
Dubov: You probably think that Russia is a bad country and we are bad people. But there is a large number of people who share the same values as you do in Europe. When the military actions started, it felt crazy, it was hard to believe. We were just shocked. When we published the letter, it felt good, like we could make a difference. Now it looks like it didn't make a difference. By now you can't even use the word "war” in Russia. Our letter was published before this new law, so at least we are not criminals.
DER SPIEGEL: Would you still say the word war now?
Dubov: No. Russian media wouldn´t be able to quote me then. It´s strange that a single word can get you into trouble.
DER SPIEGEL: Were you the initiator of the letter?
Dubov: The letter was partly mine, but it came about through teamwork.
DER SPIEGEL: Did you feel any consequences?
Dubov: This kind of protest doesn't usually lead to serious problems. Maybe there are still consequences, but for something like this you are not immediately put in prison. There were a lot of people who said pretty much the same thing in public.
DER SPIEGEL: TV presenter Marina Ovsyannikova has to pay a fine after her protest on Russian television. She can't go back to her old life. Kremlin opponent Alexei Navalny has been in prison for some time. Are you not afraid of harsh consequences?
Dubov: I don't know. There are many people who criticize Putin and are still free. I don't really see myself in trouble. I don't insult my country. I just think we made a very big mistake. If that gets me in trouble, so be it.
DER SPIEGEL: Did you consider yourself a political opponent of Putin even before the war?
Dubov: To be a real opponent, you really have to do something. I am not a professional politician. But I love this country and want it to do well. I criticize things because I have the right to do so. For example, I also criticized the government after Crimea in 2014...
DER SPIEGEL: ... the annexation of Crimea.
Dubov: I didn’t like the general direction, so to speak, but have never been politically active.
DER SPIEGEL: The war has been going on for about a month now. How do you look at it today?
Dubov: It can't get any worse for Russia. We can't make up for it. What’s going on is a disaster. The consequences will be long and unpleasant, no matter where the conflict will go. I hope it will end as soon as possible.
DER SPIEGEL: What consequences of the war do you personally feel?
Dubov: Like many Russians, I have friends in Ukraine whom I worry about. Some of them have left the country, others are defending it. I tell them that I am Russian, but that I am against what is happening.
DER SPIEGEL: Do your friends in Ukraine block contact with you because you are Russian?
Dubov: Not to that extent, but of course it has an impact.
............
DER SPIEGEL: Are you thinking about sending further signals, for example through another open letter or at demonstrations?
Dubov: There are already protests. I've been to a few demonstrations of this kind in my life.
DER SPIEGEL: You protested for the freedom of Kremlin opponent Alexei Navalny after he was arrested in early 2021.
Dubov: Yes, Alexander Grischuk and I were there. You probably think it took a lot of courage, but it doesn't. It doesn't change anything either. Basically, you wait for the police to take action and attack people. Then you go home. If you don't leave in time, the police catch you. Then it becomes uncomfortable.
DER SPIEGEL: Has that happened to you too?
Dubov: That doesn't matter now. Anyway, I didn't go to the protests this time. I think it doesn't achieve anything. With Navalny, I had the feeling that there was a chance that a very, very large group of people would send a message that would be heard. What is the goal now? Do people really think that the government will call off the troops because a few thousand people take to the streets? That may sound cynical, but quite honestly, I don't want to be beaten for a goal for which I see no chance.
DER SPIEGEL: Where do you want to go from here?
Dubov: There is no optimistic scenario for democrats. We have to wait and see, even if it is unsatisfactory. What I am saying now is really dangerous, but the only way to change anything in Russia is a revolution. Personally, I don't want that. I find it rational; you can call me a coward if you want. But I don't want the revolution to start, I don't want Russians to kill Russians. It feels like the only way, but the consequences would be worse. And even in terms of democracy Putin and his actions are clearly supported by the majority of Russians, like it or not.
DER SPIEGEL: Do you already have personal plans for the coming months?
Dubov: No. There's not much to look forward to. I find it hard to think about my future in chess. Nuclear war could break out. I could miss the end of the world while analyzing the Italian opening.
Ολόκληρη η συνέντευξη:
www.spiegel.de
Interview with Chess Grandmaster Daniil Dubov
"The Only Way To Change Anything in Russia Is a Revolution"
Vladimir Putin frequently uses sports stars to promote his propaganda. But Russian chess grandmaster Daniil Dubov is standing up to the Russian leader and the war in Ukraine. In an interview, the 25-year-old explains why he is willing to take that risk.
It's a Wednesday evening and Daniil Dubov is sitting in the bar of a Berlin hotel. Darkness falling outside and the 25-year-old Russian chess grandmaster has just played to a draw at the FIDE Grand Prix, an important tournament currently being held in the German capital. He says it was more or less a game just like any other, though he admits that he's having trouble focusing on chess at the moment, with his country, Russia, waging a war of aggression against Ukraine.
Shortly after the invasion began, Dubov joined 43 other Russian chess players in condemning the war in an open letter to President Vladimir Putin, a risky move for him given that he lives in Moscow. He sits down with DER SPIEGEL to discuss it over coffee. As he speaks, he keeps looking out the window thoughtfully.
DER SPIEGEL: Mr. Dubov, you are one of the 44 Russian chess players who, in an open letter to Russian President Vladimir Putin at the beginning of March, called for an end to the war of aggression on Ukraine. Why did you decide to do this?
Dubov: You probably think that Russia is a bad country and we are bad people. But there is a large number of people who share the same values as you do in Europe. When the military actions started, it felt crazy, it was hard to believe. We were just shocked. When we published the letter, it felt good, like we could make a difference. Now it looks like it didn't make a difference. By now you can't even use the word "war” in Russia. Our letter was published before this new law, so at least we are not criminals.
DER SPIEGEL: Would you still say the word war now?
Dubov: No. Russian media wouldn´t be able to quote me then. It´s strange that a single word can get you into trouble.
DER SPIEGEL: Were you the initiator of the letter?
Dubov: The letter was partly mine, but it came about through teamwork.
DER SPIEGEL: Did you feel any consequences?
Dubov: This kind of protest doesn't usually lead to serious problems. Maybe there are still consequences, but for something like this you are not immediately put in prison. There were a lot of people who said pretty much the same thing in public.
DER SPIEGEL: TV presenter Marina Ovsyannikova has to pay a fine after her protest on Russian television. She can't go back to her old life. Kremlin opponent Alexei Navalny has been in prison for some time. Are you not afraid of harsh consequences?
Dubov: I don't know. There are many people who criticize Putin and are still free. I don't really see myself in trouble. I don't insult my country. I just think we made a very big mistake. If that gets me in trouble, so be it.
DER SPIEGEL: Did you consider yourself a political opponent of Putin even before the war?
Dubov: To be a real opponent, you really have to do something. I am not a professional politician. But I love this country and want it to do well. I criticize things because I have the right to do so. For example, I also criticized the government after Crimea in 2014...
DER SPIEGEL: ... the annexation of Crimea.
Dubov: I didn’t like the general direction, so to speak, but have never been politically active.
DER SPIEGEL: The war has been going on for about a month now. How do you look at it today?
Dubov: It can't get any worse for Russia. We can't make up for it. What’s going on is a disaster. The consequences will be long and unpleasant, no matter where the conflict will go. I hope it will end as soon as possible.
DER SPIEGEL: What consequences of the war do you personally feel?
Dubov: Like many Russians, I have friends in Ukraine whom I worry about. Some of them have left the country, others are defending it. I tell them that I am Russian, but that I am against what is happening.
DER SPIEGEL: Do your friends in Ukraine block contact with you because you are Russian?
Dubov: Not to that extent, but of course it has an impact.
............
DER SPIEGEL: Are you thinking about sending further signals, for example through another open letter or at demonstrations?
Dubov: There are already protests. I've been to a few demonstrations of this kind in my life.
DER SPIEGEL: You protested for the freedom of Kremlin opponent Alexei Navalny after he was arrested in early 2021.
Dubov: Yes, Alexander Grischuk and I were there. You probably think it took a lot of courage, but it doesn't. It doesn't change anything either. Basically, you wait for the police to take action and attack people. Then you go home. If you don't leave in time, the police catch you. Then it becomes uncomfortable.
DER SPIEGEL: Has that happened to you too?
Dubov: That doesn't matter now. Anyway, I didn't go to the protests this time. I think it doesn't achieve anything. With Navalny, I had the feeling that there was a chance that a very, very large group of people would send a message that would be heard. What is the goal now? Do people really think that the government will call off the troops because a few thousand people take to the streets? That may sound cynical, but quite honestly, I don't want to be beaten for a goal for which I see no chance.
DER SPIEGEL: Where do you want to go from here?
Dubov: There is no optimistic scenario for democrats. We have to wait and see, even if it is unsatisfactory. What I am saying now is really dangerous, but the only way to change anything in Russia is a revolution. Personally, I don't want that. I find it rational; you can call me a coward if you want. But I don't want the revolution to start, I don't want Russians to kill Russians. It feels like the only way, but the consequences would be worse. And even in terms of democracy Putin and his actions are clearly supported by the majority of Russians, like it or not.
DER SPIEGEL: Do you already have personal plans for the coming months?
Dubov: No. There's not much to look forward to. I find it hard to think about my future in chess. Nuclear war could break out. I could miss the end of the world while analyzing the Italian opening.
Ολόκληρη η συνέντευξη:
Interview with Chess Grandmaster Daniil Dubov: "The Only Way To Change Anything in Russia Is a Revolution"
Vladimir Putin frequently uses sports stars to promote his propaganda. But Russian chess grandmaster Daniil Dubov is standing up to the Russian leader and the war in Ukraine. In an interview, the 25-year-old explains why he is willing to take that risk.
www.spiegel.de
